Robert Pease (Host): Alaska’s Congressional Representative Mary Peltola is a different kind of politician

Mary Peltola (Guest): And so this member that I didn’t, um, agree with on anything, we, we realized we both love cucumber salad. 

Robert Pease: And you could safely say a decidedly centrist kind of Democrat within the current US House 

Mary Peltola: I’m a member of the Western caucus, which right now is 106 Republicans and me.

Robert Pease: Who represents the very different state of Alaska.

Mary Peltola: And everyday life is very risky. In Juno, our state capital, bears roam freely. If I’m cooking bacon, there’s sure to be  a Mama sow and two cubs right outside the window. 

Robert Pease:  Representative Peltola is the first Native Alaskan to serve in the US Congress. 

Mary Peltola: And all of the lessons that are conveyed through hunting, learning to watch the weather, learning to read the land, learning, um, respect for nature and respect for the animals you’re harvesting… 

Robert Pease:  And she was re-elected to the current congress in a different way involving Alaska’s, and the nation’s, first instance of final four voting which places all candidates into a single open primary and then determines the winner through a ranked choice voting– where second or third place voter preferences can make a huge difference.

Mary Peltola: A moderate Republican Lisa Murkowski, Senator Murkowski was elected, one of the most conservative governors in our nation was elected Mike Dunleavy, and then myself, a moderate Democrat. And I think one of the commonalities of the three of our campaigns is we did not spend one second talking about anyone else in the field.

Robert Pease:  I am Robert Pease and this is The Purple Principle, a podcast about the perils of polarization but focusing this season on efforts to depolarize our politics, such as through final four or final five voting systems. States like Nevada are now seeking to emulate the Alaska model by passing final five voting ballot initiatives. Non partisan groups in other states are working on opening primaries. The common goal of these efforts is to elect members of congress who can actually govern. That seems reasonable if also ambitious considering the growing dysfunction of the US House. 

A House of Dysfunction

Robert Pease: We’ll speak with Representative Peltola about House dysfunction and discord.  

Robert Pease: But first we need to understand a bit more about our nation’s most purple and indie-minded state where 60% or voters are registered as non-partisan or, effectively,   independent. Back in 2010 the moderate Republican Senator Lisa Murkowki was re-elected by Alaskans as a write-in candidate after losing a polarizing primary. 

Lisa Murkovki: “Tonight, after 8 weeks, I think we can say our miracle is here”

Robert Pease: In 2014 Alaska elected the nation’s most recent independent Governor, Bill Walker, who formed a bipartisan cabinet. 

Gov. Bill Walker: So that was helpful. Um, there were times that the Republicans were happy with me and the Democrats were not, the next day is the other way around the Democrats…

Robert Pease: And in 2019 a deadlock over the Alaska House Speakership was resolved when moderate Republicans broke with their own party to vote with independents and democrats. These things don’t seem possible in what Alaskans call the lower 48 or in our nation’s capital. I asked Representative Peltola, how are they possible in Alaska?

Mary Peltola: Well, Alaska is unique because we really rely on each other for just day-to-day survival. And we have such a few number of people in such a vast geographic state. I think people in the lower 48 can’t fathom the distances. So I am from the community of Bethel. We’re about 75 miles off the Bering Sea our nearest town, um, that’s bigger than Bethel is 400 miles away. You can only get there through Alaska Airlines on a 737. And, um, our commodities are all either freighted in by cargo plane or barges. Um, we have 56 villages in the region that I’m from. My region is the size of Oregon. Um, the region that I’m originally from, we have 56 villages, none of which are connected by road. And then in the larger state of Alaska, we really have six states within a state. We’re, we’re three Californias, or more than two Texases.We’re just a really huge, dangerous state, and we all need each other. And being entrenched  in partisan thinking just doesn’t serve us. 

Robert Pease: Yeah. We had a previous guest on one of our earlier Alaska episodes Brendan Jones who’s a novelist and a fisherman.

Brendan Jones: Um, I have a good friend there who runs the Sitka co-op and he says, it’s very simple, don’t lie, don’t cheat, don’t steal because you’ll get found out. Um, you know, it’s people, aren’t Republicans are Democrats, they’re fishing buddies, or they’re, you know, volunteer firemen, or, um, and of course that happens in small towns across America.

Robert Pease: And he talked about  local politics in Alaska being  so essential.

Brendan Jones: Um, and by that, I mean, it’s unique in that it hasn’t been organized into political units. Um, I mean most of Alaska, I think two thirds of it is called unorganized boroughs. Um, and, uh, we have something called “Home Rule” and that’s, that’s actually written  into the Alaska Constitution. I think it’s like article 10, section 11 or something.

Mary Peltola: Yeah, you know  like I said, we’re so big, we can’t really expect anyone from Juno or Washington DC to come and assist us. You know, we often say, no one’s coming to save us. We have to do it ourselves. Um, and, um, he’s exactly right. You really see local governance born out in, in Alaska and the, and the power and agencies that local governments have.

Robert Pease: You were elected to the state legislature at a very young age, if we have this correct. Uh, age 24. So we had several elections without Final four voting, and then of course, elections with Final Four voting. Uh, did you feel that that was a different environment, that that was, uh, a markedly less strictly zero sum partisan situation when you ran under Final four voting?

Mary Peltola: Yes. And, and another difference between when I ran in the 1990s and 200’s, it was just a very different era. I mean, at that time, you only had comments, um, at the end of news articles. We didn’t have social media. Um, things just weren’t as partisan. And, and this history and model of working together across the aisle was just very pervasive in Alaska, and I think in many other places. But it is very different. I know that I would not be in this position if we didn’t have the Final Four system, because I would not have made it through a partisan primary. I am not liberal enough to have been elected by Democrats. Um, my views on predator control, my, you know, uh, views on Alaska’s need for resource development is just not in keeping with the more liberal folks in our party.And, um, so I, I think that with the Final Four system, you tend to get people who are not establishment, they are not entrenched in their parties, and they’re able to appeal to a broader group. The other good thing about Final Four is it really tones down the personal attacks. It tones down the partisan attacks because you’re also working to get second and third place votes.

Robert Pease: From our point of view, um, having, uh, you know, covered polarization for three years now, we feel like Alaska is out ahead. Alaska did something other states are now trying to emulate. Do you find that your constituents understand that a lot of people have watched what they’ve done there? And  is that a point of pride?

Mary Peltola: I don’t know. You know, we’re, we’re, so, um, Alaska is so isolated and, and it is such an effort and expense to come to the lower 48, and many of us have very close ties and family ties with folks in the lower 48, but we just really are kind of our own place, our own country. You know, it’s a, we kind of are a lot like Texas, where we’re kind of like a nation state in our own mind. Um, but I, I’m very prideful of the way that we work together session after session. And I understand you had Calvin Schrage here on your program talking about this Alaska model of bipartisanship.

Calvin Schrage:  And what comes first for me is my community, the state of Alaska.

Robert Pease: Representing parts of Anchorage, Calvin Schrage is now serving his 2nd term  in the Alaska House of Representatives.

Calvin Schrange: Doesn’t matter the issue. And when I, when I realized that and went through that mental exercise in my mind, I knew it was clear for me. I needed to run as a nonpartisan. 

Mary Peltola:  Um, like I mentioned earlier, the State House district that I represented was very rural and remote, and I was, um, the Chair for the Bush Caucus. Um, we refer to our most remote places in Alaska as the Bush, and there were 10 of us, five Republicans, five Democrats. And our coalition.

Mary Peltola: We were very productive. We were able to get a lot of capital programs, uh, capital projects, a lot of good programs that benefited people throughout the state– education funding. But because we had that bipartisan group of 10 out of 40, we were very successful. And  a lot of bush legislators, we have to be practical. And I have that same feeling. It’s like muscle memory, here in Congress, because I represent an at-large district. So that means I have the entire state of Alaska, and I don’t have anybody to pinch hit for me. I don’t have a, a caucus like California or Florida where they can go and meet with 50 other people or more than 50 people to, um, work on their issues collectively. It’s, it’s me and my two senators and my governor. That’s, that’s really my caucus.

Narration Break

Robert Pease: You’re listening to The Purple Principle and US House Representative Mary Peltola, the at-large, meaning statewide, representative  for Alaska — our nations’ largest and least densely populated state. Mary Peltola referred to Alaska as something like Texas in being the size of a nation and having a distinct culture.  In an interview with us last year, former US Representative from Texas, Will Hurd–  he described the Washington DC culture shock he felt on his first Sunday Morning talk show. 

Will Hurd: And it was four members of Congress, two Republicans, two Democrats. We’re in the green room, and everybody’s talking, they were like, how are your kids? And they’re like, oh, would you like some, you know, some cantaloupe? 

Robert Pease: Like Peltola, Hurd was one of the most centrist and pragmatic US House members on a range of issues, from immigration to police reform. 

Will Hurd: And I’m like, wow, this is really nice. And I’m a couple months in. 

Will Hurd: Then we get out. Lights come on. And it was, it was like WrestleMania in there, all right? And, everybody started attacking.  

Robert Pease: Welcome to Washington. We wondered what that Washington welcome was like for Mary Peltola, arriving in the nation’s capital from a remote part of a remote state where cooperation is essential just for daily survival. 

Peltola Interview

Mary Peltola: Um, I, I haven’t found myself in exactly the same situation. But Robert, I will admit, I really did feel like this is a foreign country. And I had been to Washington DC a number of times before I was elected, um, but only for a couple days. But, when I found the Safeway store, uh, when my husband and I located Safeway, we finally felt like we really were in America. Because we aren’t familiar with Trader Joe’s in Alaska. We aren’t familiar with those brands and how their stores are laid out. We’re not familiar with, uh, Whole Foods. Um, so finding a safe way was, it was like, yes, we are in America. 

Robert Pease: Yeah. And you’re from, obviously, a very rural state, very low population density, and most of the members, or a good percentage of the members of the Democratic Party are from urban or suburban districts. So does it make it difficult for you to explain your point of view within, within your own party?

Mary Peltola: Of course. Um, but that is to be expected. And, and if people don’t know about Alaska, that’s my fault, because I, I’m the one who should be telling them about Alaska and, and our perspectives. So I don’t expect people to know about our specific issues. It’s really my job to help share that. But absolutely, you know, hunting is such an integral part of our state, and it’s such an integral part of almost every culture within Alaska. And we grow up thinking of hunting as an expression of love, but that’s something families do together.

Mary Peltola: And then sharing your catch with your family and with members of your community who need also to have that, that nutritional content that’s an expression of love. And that actually is the thing that has really made my kids want to hunt more, is when they share with elders or people who need food, there is so much joy and love and appreciation for that food. It, it’s like addictive. Um, when my boys started sharing their harvest, they said, you know, I, I love hunting. I wanna keep doing this forever. But you know, that, that’s a very different mindset and, and it, it doesn’t comport with what we’re seeing with this terrible trend of violence. But if you’ll notice the people who perpetrate those, the common denominator is extreme isolation. And when you’re in a community that grows up around hunting there, I don’t think that you grow up with that same sense of isolation.

Robert Pease: Yeah. Well, let’s, uh, change topics just a little bit here and talk about  the Problem Solvers caucus in DC that you are a member of. We’ve had other members on, um, and we were curious if during the Speaker crisis, uh, when Speaker McCarthy, was, um, removed. 

Working across the aisle

Rep. Matt Gaetz: You only earn the position of Speaker of the house if you can get the votes. Mr. McCarthy doesn’t have the votes today. He will not have the votes tomorrow.

Rep. Kelly Armstrong: And if we’re gonna do the majority of the majority, then a motion to vacate seems a little silly. Because Kevin McCarthy has the majority or has the support of the vast majority of our conference.

House Clerk: The resolution is adopted. The office of Speaker of the House is hereby declared vacant.

Robert Pease: And through a series of votes, uh, Speaker Johnson was elected.

House Clerk: A Speaker has not been elected

Anchor #1:  Jim Jordan is no longer running for Speaker of the House, this follows this morning’s third failed vote. 

House clerk: A speaker has not been elected. 

Anchor #2: The House of Representative has, after 3 weeks after legislative  paralysis, elected a new Speaker, his name is Mike Johnson of Louisiana. 

Robert Pease: There was no, at least to the outsider, there, there were no, uh, Democratic attempts to, to cross the aisle. Were there some behind the scenes conversations between, let’s say, members of the problem Solvers caucus wondering, can we do something here as we did on the debt ceiling? Can we forge some kind of an alliance?

Mary Peltola: I think that there’s always a behind the scenes effort to get to a solution, especially with the Problem Solvers caucus. And certainly there was a desire and, and the conversation was really, you know, could we have somebody in a temporary position either 14 days at a time or a temporary till January, where someone could be deputized to make  those decisions that  only the speaker can make? But you know, one of the issues there is that the entrenchment is so deep that many people in the majority did not want overtures, or they did not want solutions from Democrats because that was a poison pill. And we’re just talking about keeping the lights on here. We’re not even talking about forward progress. We’re just talking about, um, staying still, you know, just status quo, not even any gains. And that’s a really tough place to be. But of course, members and, and there’s just a few people who are kind of like the wrecking balls and, and who are not for the gears of government continuing forward.

Robert Pease: Well, we’re polarized so many issues, it’s hard to talk about all of them. But let’s, let’s talk about, uh, let’s say energy policy. Uh, I hope you don’t mind our not at all mentioning your husband. We’re very sorry about your, your loss. But he, it seemed like he was on a very interesting project there, Alaska Carbon Solutions seemed more like a market-based approach. And, and we wondered, um, do you feel like, uh, that is a possible model for how to break through on energy policy, uh, in a divided house? 

Mary Peltola: Um, Robert, thank you for asking that question. I think on energy, we need an all of the above approach. We need to be, uh, going forward on everything. And  in terms of renewables, I think the biggest impediment to us getting more renewables online is our permitting process. Our permitting process is clunky and cumbersome and time consuming. We’re talking five years on average in the lower 48 to get a project permitted 10 years, at least in Alaska. And a lot of people don’t understand that when we’re talking about permitting reform, it’s not just about gas and oil, it’s about renewables. It takes just as long to permit a renewable project as anything else. And if we’re gonna get serious about transitioning, we have to look at these timelines and  and just the obstacles and impediments that are inherent in the the permitting process. 

Robert Pease: You’re obviously, uh, in a situation there, it’s very difficult to get things done. It’s an election year.  It’s closely divided. Uh, there have been leadership changes. Uh, what is a solution or what is something that might help depolarize the House? Is it the way we conduct our primaries? Is it campaign finance reform? Is it term limits? You know, if you had to pick one thing that could make a difference in, you know, our lifetime, what would you prioritize?

Mary Peltola: I think a couple things. You know, systemically, I think getting away from these closed party primaries, because then every Republican is trying to out Republican each other. Every Democrat is trying to out Democrat each other, and it’s it, and then you are left with two extremes, which the middle of the road people… you know, I think that we have record low voter turnout for a reason, because people don’t want to listen to this kind of bickering. Another thing that I think would be helpful is if there were more opportunities to break bread with people across the party, across party lines. If you look at the chamber, we don’t have a seating arrangement. We don’t have assigned seating. It’s just open seating auditorium. And you’ll notice that there isn’t much back and forth. We have two separate cloak rooms that we eat in.

Mary Peltola: So, you know, I have had very few opportunities just to eat with Republicans. And I am very eager to meet and collaborate with as many Republicans as I can. I’m a member of the Western caucus, which right now is 106 Republicans and me. But I’ve, I’ve tried to find caucuses where I would have access and, and be able to collaborate more with Republican members. And, you know, even like the committee  structure, every committee you will see it’s Republicans on this side and Democrats on this side. And that is inherently a very bad way to engender bipartisanship and  working together.

Robert Pease: Um, year, so Mary, from your time in Alaska, let’s say when you first joined the legislature there, was there anything that helped you  bridge the political divide?

Mary Peltola: Yes. So when I was first elected, I was in my mid twenties and I imagined, like most people do, that I was going to Juno to fight, to fight against our enemies and fight for my district. And when I got there, one of my colleagues told me, and, and this was advice he had received from his dad who had been in the legislature, you have to have 59 best friends if you want to  accomplish anything. So I really internalized that and made it my mission to become friends with all of the members, regardless of their background. And there was one member in particular, we were total opposites on everything. We didn’t align on a single issue. But we, in the Juno legislature, in the Alaska Legislature, there’s a members only lounge for eating. And that’s where we were really able to get to know other members. And so this member that I didn’t agree with on anything, we, we realized we both love cucumber salad.  So that was our bond is, you know, this German salad. But, really,  there’s such a primal thing about eating with people, eating together, breaking bread, and, hopefully we can, you know.

Mary Peltola: The other thing is I realize so many of these issues are long game. And in the House we have two year election cycles  and it’s hard to have a long range vision or long range goals if every year you’re  basically running for election. But I’m very helpful that we will become bipartisan and find a way we can work as Americans together? We’re all on the same team. We’re all, um, we all want the same things for our country. 

Robert Pease:  Well, that’s great. if you run on the Cucumber Party Ticket, you have our vote

Mary Peltola: The cucumber salad, yes!

Outro

Robert Pease: We’ve been speaking with Alaska’s US House Representative, Mary Peltola, a native Alaskan and a breath of fresh non-partisan air in the US Congress. Petrola, a centrist Democrat, was re-elected on the third ballot of final four voting based on her acceptability to both independent and GOP voters, who comprise over 80% She already established a record of working across the aisle with Republicans in the Alaska state legislature as she does now in the US House. So imagine as you consider whether and how to vote in the upcoming primaries, what if there were a few dozen more representatives like Mary Peltola  in the US House from both parties? Could the House then break free from  its current paralysis?

Mary Peltola: and we’re just talking about keeping the lights on here. We’re not even talking about forward progress. We’re just talking about, um, staying still, you know, just status quo, not even any gains. And and that’s a really tough place to be. 

Robert Pease: Could we solve or at least improve immigration, reach a compromise on gun violence,  reign in the deficit and address income inequality in a bipartisan way? Doesn’t seem like too much to ask so we will  be asking those questions of candidates, legislators, and non-partisan election reform leaders throughout the country this season on The Purple Principle and we hope you’ll  stay with us. And If you’re  listening for the first time, please subscribe on your favorite streaming app, share us on social media and leave a review on apple or wherever you listen to podcasts.  Thanks from the whole team here for tuning out election year discord and tuning in for Season 4. The Purple Principle is a Fluent Knowledge production. Original music by Ryan Adair Rooney.