A Primary Solution to Unite America? New Book From Election Reformer, Nick Troiano

Nick Troiano (Guest): You have Americans on both sides of the aisle, but who are dissatisfied with the quality of governance today, with the temperature of the political rhetoric, with divisiveness…

Robert Pease (host): That’s Nick Troiano talking about the audience he’s writing for in his new book,  The Primary Solution: Rescuing Our Democracy from the Fringes 

Nick Troiano: And so my goal in this book isn’t just to diagnose the problem, but to give people a solution that is viable and can happen right there in their own states. 

Robert Pease: Nick is Executive Director of Unite America, a cross-partisan group founded to raise money, awareness and engagement for structural solutions like opening primaries to independent or unaffiliated voters 

Nick Troiano: And it was really through a lot of research and practice that I personally came to the conclusion and the organization followed that partisan primaries are the biggest solvable problem today. 

Robert Pease: There’s  seven years of Unite America experience informing The Primary Solution. But also Nick’s earlier personal experience directing other reform efforts and running  for Congress at the rather early age of 24.  

Nick Troiano:The catalyst for that experience was not me as a 20 something saying, I want to find a pathway into elected office. It was instead having spent the last couple years in Washington DC running a nonprofit advocacy group called the Can Kicks back, trying to lobby our elected officials to take bipartisan and bold action on our country’s fiscal challenges. And seeing that fall flat.

Robert Pease:  A decade later, the US Congress continues to kick a whole lot of  cans down the road on issues like the deficit, immigration, gun violence.   Yet the majority of our  legislators operate from safely red or blue districts or states and rarely pay an electoral price for failure to govern. Party-run primaries have a lot to do with our gridlock.  This is the Purple Principle, a podcast on the perils of polarization. I’m Robert Pease speaking with author and electoral changemaker, Nick Troiano in this bonus episode.   

Robert Pease: We open the conversation with Nick, as he opens the book,  with his run for Congress as independent candidate in  Pennsylvania. And In case you’re wondering how that election turned out  this chapter is called Mr Troiano does not go to Washington. 

Interview

Nick Troiano: And so it was at a immense frustration with the system, uh, that I decided to run in 2014 because the year prior not only did, uh, a large proposal to deal with our long-term fiscal challenges not get traction, the government actually shut down over a partisan attempt to force President Obama to defund the Affordable Care Act.

Nick Troiano: And my Congressman, uh, from back where I’m from in Pennsylvania, was a key part of that. And it bothered me to no end seeing that he would have a free pass to reelection in 2014 , because he wasn’t getting challenged from within his own party. The Democrat wasn’t viable because it’s a very red district. And I  was a Republican, but I changed my voter registration after the shutdown happened, and I decided to  hold him accountable as the only way I knew I could, which was getting my name on the ballot outside of the two major parties.

Robert Pease:Yeah. So are there any conversations, any door knocking conversations from that run that, that, that stay with you today that, that inform you today?

Nick Troiano: Well, the thing I write about it in the book, which sticks with me to this day, was my experience on election day.  And I remember taking a three and a half hour drive across my 15 county district visiting our, uh, essentially our poll workers. And, uh, they were members of the Green Party. They were libertarian, a Republican, a Democrat, and independent. And it just crystallized for me that some ideas and some leaders in our politics actually can transcend these very tribal divisions that we have. And the way that I was able to do that was because I wasn’t running with a party label. There was no preconception of the caricature that people have of what is a Democrat or what is a Republican. And so I really was able to build a base of support, one conversation at a time, getting to know people and actually finding out we agree on a whole lot more than we disagree on. And that was very special to be able to do as an independent. The flip side of that is I also realized it’s hard to put together enough votes, one conversation at, at a time, even over the course of 10 months.

Robert Pease: Yeah. And at that time, you might have benefited from open primaries in Pennsylvania. We still don’t have open primaries there though. There’s an effort. Where, where does that effort stand right now?

Nick Troiano: Well, it’s an effort that’s gaining traction. Pennsylvania is one of 15 states where unaffiliated or independent candidates do not have a right to vote in the party primaries. And there is an effort, uh, led by a gentleman named David Thornberg, uh, the son of the former Republican governor called Ballot pa that’s trying to change that to lobby the state legislature, uh, to give every independent voter over a million of them, uh, in the keystone state, a right to vote. And that bill actually passed a key House committee, uh, last year, and it is now trying to make progress through the House and through the Senate.

 Robert Pease: We’ll get into some conversations about other state efforts, uh, in just a moment, but, uh, it’s almost exactly four years ago that our first guest on the show, Charles Wheelan and founder of United America spoke to us and we do wanna play a clip from that interview and, and ask for your reaction.

Charles Wheelan: Yeah. I think one of the scary things going on here is you’ve got a lot of different forces at work. The rise of television news where you pick your ideology, the rise of social media, where not only are you hearing the echo chamber, but think about something like gerrymandering. Now, big data allows us to gerrymander better than we used to. We’ve always gerrymandered, we just weren’t as good at it, which means more safe seats, which means the primaries matter more. They’re more expensive races. Who do you get the money from? The people who are the most extreme. Every single force that is going on is pushing us apart.

Robert Pease: So, Has anything changed, NIck? Um, are we more, or maybe just as polarized as four years ago? Uh, or is there maybe more recognition of that and maybe a little more energy and money in structural reform than four years ago?

Nick Troiano: I think two things are true. Uh, and Charlie was the catalyst for this organization coming into being now 10 years ago, originally as the centrist project. And oftentimes when we check in with each other, we think we’ve hit rock bottom, uh, only to find a few months later or a year later. Actually, rock bottom is much deeper, uh, in terms of how much more polarized the country is growing or even how much higher the stakes are rising as a impact of that, of that polarization. So the flip side of that, however, is as the problem gets worse, more and more people are coming off the sidelines to do something about it. And a lot of people who’ve traditionally been focused on trying to elect candidates that agree with them or defeat candidates they don’t like, are also approaching this in a much more systemic way. Yes, leaders matter, but so do incentives and a lot more people are paying attention to those incentives and how to change it, which is what this election reform movement is really all about.

Robert Pease: Yeah. Well, four years ago when we spoke with Charles Wheelan, uh, we didn’t have to choose our words about election reform quite so carefully as we do in the aftermath of Stop the Steal. Does that make it more difficult, the messaging more difficult and sensitive as, as you reach out to raise money, to get signatures and, and to push along these reforms?

Nick Troiano: I think people are more suspicious to changes in election law because, and I do think this is true, that, both political parties have sought to find advantage for what might, uh, help their base have greater access, or the other parties base have less access to the ballot. And unfortunately, that’s a game that they’ve been playing for some time, even in ways that are ill conceived or just aren’t grounded in actual data. Which is why when we’re out there talking about these issues, uh, we’re not leading on policy or on mechanics.

Nick Troiano: We’re leading with principles. And there are two very important principles  to election reform that United America supports. The first is that every registered voter ought to have the right to vote in every taxpayer funded election for any candidate regardless of party. And the second principle is that whoever wins the election ought to have a majority of voters supporting them. Those are two principles supported by 70-80 plus percent of Americans regardless of party affiliation. So once we can have a conversation about that, then we can start talking about policy. And I think that can bring a lot of people along that might otherwise have sort of knee-jerk opposition to, you know, specific ideas.

Robert Pease: We’re speaking with Nick Troiano, Executive Director of Unite America and author of the new book, The Primary Solution: Rescuing our Democracy from the Fringes.  It’s being published by Simon & Schuster  just as a record number of pragmatic US House Members of both parties decline to compete in another polarizing primary this election cycle. On the GOP side, many don’t  want to seek the endorsement of the probable Presidential nominee, Donald Trump. But many members on both sides are frustrated by the inability to tackle major issues.And yet  by not running, these more moderate representatives will very likely leave their seats to House members far less pragmatic, thus making even the most basic of government functions, such as passing a budget, that much more difficult.  

But there is one bright spot in this  bleak political landscape. And it comes from a place which normally experiences more darkness than the rest of the country, the frontier state of Alaska, It’s the first in the nation to pass final four voting which combines an open unified primary  with a ranked choice general election.  Our first guest this season was  Alaska’s at-large US House member Mary Peltola who knows the advantages of this electoral reform first hand: 

Mary Peltola: I know that I would not be in this position if we didn’t have the Final Four system, because I would not have made it through a partisan primary. I am not liberal enough to have been elected by Democrats. My views on predator control, my, you know, views on Alaska’s need for resource development is just not in keeping with the more liberal folks in our party. So I think that with the Final Four system, you tend to get people who are not establishment, they are not entrenched in their parties, and they’re able to appeal to a broader group.

Robert Pease: Nick Troiano has written a chapter in this book on Alaska as proof of concept for the structural reform that Unite America and other groups have been working on  for well over a decade.  I asked him to explain the importance of the  Alaska model that several other US states are now seeking to adopt through ballot initiatives and legislation in 2024 and beyond.

Narration

Nick Troiano: I’d say one of the most extraordinary things about Alaska, uh, is that out of the first use of the Final four system, where top four nonpartisan primary instant runoff general election came a moderate Democrat, a moderate Republican for Senate, and a conservative Republican governor was reelected. And so this is really about a system that is, uh, trying to best translate people’s votes into representation. What are the most representative outcomes, whether that is left, right, or center? And that’s really what the system had demonstrated it was able to do in 2022.

Nick Troiano: Because if we want government to function, we need leaders who are working to conciliate and narrow our differences. And the essential dysfunction right now in our politics is that our institutions are doing the exact opposite. They’re magnifying our differences to score political points and to stay in office.

Robert Pease: Yeah. We also had, uh, former Congress member Will Hurd from Texas on the show. He was a member of the Problem Solvers Caucus, as is, uh, Mary Peltola. Uh, we’re wondering at United America there, do, do you watch these House elections to see how these bridge building caucuses like the Blue Dogs or, uh, the problem solver caucus, the Main Street Caucus, do, do you, do you watch those people with particular interest to see if they survive?

Nick Troiano: I do. And uh, we have seen, unfortunately, the Blue Dogs, for example, have been hollowed out a steady decrease in the number of more moderate or conservative Democrats, likewise used to have, um, groups like the Tuesday group of Republicans that have been hollowed out. And so we’re seeing a congress that is almost the exact opposite of what you would expect looking at our country. If, if we have more of a bell curve of political belief in our country, Congress is sort of an inverted bell curve. Uh, the wings have disproportionate say, and that’s largely because of our, uh, election system today. 

Nick Troiano: If we’re trying to get ultimately to a more functional representative Congress, as is the mission of United America, we really have a lot of emphasis in the US Senate. Uh, the Senate is a body of elected officials with longer terms that traditionally a lot of  bipartisan deal making has, uh, been accomplished through, Usually you’ll hear of the Gang of 10 or the gang of 20. I mean, these are relatively smaller group of senators from both political parties who can hash out compromises to actually solve problems. We saw this on  COVID Relief. We saw this on Criminal Justice Reform. And you go back to the 20th century, we saw it on every major issue, right, on Social Security, on  Welfare Reform…

Nick Troiano: Our goal is to win primary reform in at least six more states so that we can liberate another dozen US senators, uh, from the primary problem.  Which is all to say that we don’t need to win these reforms in all 50 states for us to get a better result. Every incremental state that we’re successful, you know, we liberate two more senators, a handful of more representatives to actually do their jobs.

Narration

Robert Pease: That’s Nick Troiano of Unite America. In his new book, The Primary Solution he details how electoral reforms in as few as 6 states could tip the balance in Congress from gridlock toward governance.  But state level  reform by legislation or ballot initiative is no easy task. Ranked choice voting failed by a wide margin in Massachusetts in 2020. Also in 2020 Open Primaries barely missed in Florida getting 57% where 60% was needed. We asked Nick what states this election cycle had the most realistic chance of implementing a major election reform.   

Nick Troiano: There are close to 900,000 Nevadans who do not have a right to vote in the primaries where many elections are often decided, right? These elections are over by November. So they’re excluded not just from the primary, but really from having a say in who, who represents them ultimately. And so that was one of the impetus for a local coalition to organize a ballot campaign to go directly to the voters and say what Alaska adopted that would work really well here too. Uh, the combination of a nonpartisan primary instant runoff, and that was challenged by the Democratic party machine in Nevada, uh, which really liked having a lock on the ability to have a lot of control over who gets to run for office and get nominated.

Nick Troiano: So they fought this tooth and nail spending over a million dollars to keep it off the ballot, uh, to tie it up in litigation. And the people prevailed. Not only did it get to the ballot, it won with 53% support in 2022 because it is aiming to amend the state’s constitution. Nevada is a unique state in that it must pass two election cycles in a row. So it’s automatically back on the ballot for November, where we have a lot of confidence it will pass again. 

Robert Pease: And that’ll be in 2024. What about Maine? Maine seems to have taken slightly different route here, starting with rank choice voting without open primaries. What will the primaries be like in Maine this year?

Nick Troiano: The primaries in Maine will actually be different than they have been in the past, uh, because the Maine legislature, uh, voted to allow independent voters to be able to pick which party’s primary, uh, to vote in, which is a big step forward. And it shows to the other 15 states that still disenfranchise millions of their citizens that change is possible. And, and the Maine legislature showed that, uh, just a couple years ago when it, when it passed this bill. So the primaries would be a bit different this year. It’s not a non-partisan primary in the sense of you still have a Democratic and Republican ballot, uh, but it will enfranchise a lot of voters, uh, in the state and with ranked choice voting, uh, in the general election there, including for president. And as we, you know, come into an election cycle where we know we’re gonna see a very tight race between the Democrats and Republicans, but with also several third party candidates running Maine will be a good example to say why a ranked choice system, uh, can serve voters better, because voters can vote their  conscience without worrying that they will be spoiling the election if they, uh, vote for the candidate they really want.

Robert Pease: It’s interesting to see how many states are taking on structural reform, nonpartisan reform, uh, this election cycle. Uh, it seems Arizona has an open primaries initiative that’s a state with a substantial number of independent voters, but there are also some other more conservative states. Um, I’m thinking South Dakota, as you mentioned, Utah and Idaho. Does that affect the strategy that you’re working in a more conservative environment, not as many independent or unaffiliated voters? And does that affect the chances of passage?

Nick Troiano: Well, first I would say, I think this year will be the most robust year for election reform that we’ve seen in the modern era. It hearkens back to the Progressive Era a century ago when a lot of these reforms were won. You know, that’s when party primaries themselves were invented as a good governance reform initially. 1904 was the first state in Wisconsin, and within the decade, a majority of states adopted it. So change can happen quite quickly after one state sets a good example.

Nick Troiano: And after 2020, what we saw in Alaska, now you’re in election cycle where over a half dozen states are looking at, uh, similar reforms. And what I would say is, regardless of red, blue, or purple state, the political dynamics might be different as to who the party in power is that may oppose this, but the people are for it. The people do agree that every voter should have the right to vote for any candidate in every election, and that, uh, elected officials have to win a majority of votes to get elected. That’s something that has broad appeal.

Robert Pease: There’s also an effort in a very blue city, one of our bluest cities, uh, Washington, DC um, sort of the, the capital of disenfranchisement. They don’t have, uh, a voting member of Congress. So what chance does a nonpartisan reform have that would dilute Democratic power in a city    with 60% registered Democrats?

Nick Troiano: So, and that campaign, uh, led by one of our board members, Lisa Rice, a proud, independent, um, a passionate activist capable leader on this issue, and we’re seeing similar reforms pop up in other cities in New York, uh, in Boston. It’s not just a statewide challenge in terms of where our election system leaves a lot of people out, uh, but in Washington, we’ve seen the Democratic Party come out to oppose this, uh, to say that ranking your candidates 1, 2, 3 is too confusing. Uh, it’s a real insult to voters if you ask me, uh, to say that they’re not capable of, of doing what they do in every other context of their everyday lives, uh, quite well, and that we’ve seen work in other jurisdictions.

Robert Pease: Are there any states or prominent cities, uh, that we haven’t discussed that you think people who are intrigued, supportive, enthused about structural reform should keep an eye on this year?

Nick Troiano: I am coming to you from Colorado Colorado’s a state, uh, where we are working with a group of people to put forward a similar initiative as Alaska in 2024, and I mentioned South Dakota before, there’s a group in Montana, uh, it should all give us some hope that, uh, this is a problem that is tractable. There is something we can do about it. Our constitution says the time, place and manner of our elections is up to the states. So we do not need a constitutional amendment. We do not need an act of Congress to fix the system. Half the states, you can do it through ballot. The other half we can lobby our legislatures. 

Nick Troiano: So one of my biggest, takeaways and inspirations from running for office was knowing that, um, if you put in the shoe leather, you, you know, you can get the signatures and you can get in that case, my name, or in this case the ballot initiative on the ballot. And at the end of the day, we all have one vote. Uh, so there’s nothing so wrong with the state of our democracy that we can’t fix with the tools that our democracy gives us to do so. So that’s why I remain fundamentally optimistic in a moment of, of great challenge right now for the country.

Outro

Robert Pease: Optimism in today’s political climate? That’s  a rare commodity. It’s also a precious one because Nick Troiano is  supporting that optimism with detailed solutions for government gridlock through the electoral reforms discussed here today. The proof of concept is Alaska’s Final Four Voting which was passed in 2020 and utilized for the first time in 2022 elections.  Now nearly a dozen US states are striving to adopt all or part of that Alaska model through 2024 ballot measures and legislative efforts. 

Robert Pease: For a fuller understanding of these reforms, please pick up or download Nick Troiano’s new book, The Primary Solution published by Simon & Schuster.  It’s  the perfect companion volume  to another polarizing primary election season this year. But with the efforts of groups like Unite America, Open Primaries, Fair Vote and the Institute for Political Innovation, along with many other national and  state level groups,  that high water mark of polarization and gridlock may very well recede much more substantially after this 2024 election.

Robert Pease: Next up on The Purple Principle, discussion of another major factor in our polarization and that is gerrymandering, the drawing of electoral districts for partisan gain. It’s been a national pastime since before we were a nation. And as we approach the 2024 election the judicial verdicts on gerrymandering in states like New York, North Carolina and Wisconsin, that could determine the balance of power in the US House and even the White House

Sam Wang: For some reason people are super interested in this year’s presidential race. I can’t quite figure it out, but anyway, Um, the presidential race might get thrown into the House of Representatives if there’s some crazy thing that happens.It goes there. And in the House of Representatives, um, every state gets one vote. 

Robert Pease: That’s Dr. Sam Wang of the Princeton Gerrymandering Project, one of the most respected, widely cited sources of analysis on gerrymandering. We’ll also hear from Paul Smith, Sr. Vice President at Campaign Legal Center, who has argued against some of the nation’s most partisan gerrymanders, both red and blue,  in state supreme courts and the US Supreme Court.

Paul M Smith: And certainly when I’ve done cases in the past involving congressional delegations, a piece of it is, uh, the one that Sam mentioned, which is who’s gonna control the delegation for purposes of this particularly, uh, unusual, uh, house resolution of presidential elections.

Robert Pease: Such an important topic. And a challenging one. So we’ll be breaking gerrymandering down for you on that episode. We hope you’ll tune in, share it with others, leave us a review on your favorite podcast app,  and check out our youtube content. Please also connect with us via the social platform of your choice. Have you tried out Mastodon or Post dot News or Blue Sky Social? If so we’d love to hear about your experiences beyond the usual social media suspects. 

Robert Pease: The Purple Principle is very much a collaborative effort. Our Senior Audio Engineer is Kevin A. Kline, Associate Producer is Alex Couraud, research and fact checking Sarah Kim, and Digital Strategy & Ops from Trevor Prophet. The Purple Principle is a Fluent Knowledge production. Original music by Ryan Adair Rooney.